<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<feed xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom">
    <title>ClimateDebateDaily.Org</title>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/" />
    <link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/atom.xml" />
    <id>tag:www.climatedebatedaily.org,2008-09-07:/17</id>
    <updated>2010-02-27T21:32:04Z</updated>
    <subtitle>Criticizing the structural Denialism in the false debate</subtitle>
    <generator uri="http://www.sixapart.com/movabletype/">Movable Type Pro 4.3-en</generator>

<entry>
    <title>Seismic activity linked to global warming</title>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/2009/10/seismic-activity-linked-to-global-warming.html" />
    <id>tag:www.climatedebatedaily.org,2009://17.130</id>

    <published>2009-10-02T06:05:39Z</published>
    <updated>2010-02-27T21:32:04Z</updated>

    <summary><![CDATA[Finally, human civilization is starting to get global warming events that it can FEEL. &nbsp; Earthquakes, tsunamis, and volcanoes. &nbsp; Something real, something hard, fast,...]]></summary>
    <author>
        <name>Richard Pauli</name>
        
    </author>
    
        <category term="future" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#category" />
    
    <category term="seismicactivity" label="Seismic activity" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#tag" />
    <category term="anthropocene" label="anthropocene" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#tag" />
    <category term="earthquake" label="earthquake" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#tag" />
    
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/">
        <![CDATA[<p><b>Finally, human civilization is starting to get global warming events that it can FEEL.
</b>
&nbsp; 
</p></p>

<p>Earthquakes, tsunamis, and volcanoes. &nbsp;  Something real, something hard, fast, and impossible to ignore. &nbsp; Increasing evidence and statistical analysis links increased seismic activity to global warming.<br><br>This alarming notion was first discussed in 1998 and is now more widely mentioned in <a href="http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-04/uot-ior042006.php">university studies</a> and recent publications - from the <a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&amp;_udi=B6V9X-3T7JJ4S-K&amp;_user=10&amp;_rdoc=1&amp;_fmt=&amp;_orig=search&amp;_sort=d&amp;_docanchor=&amp;view=c&amp;_searchStrId=1031515895&amp;_rerunOrigin=google&amp;_acct=C000050221&amp;_version=1&amp;_urlVersion=0&amp;_userid=10&amp;md5=50a34c2bc96dd02f495e2b78f4e5f511">Journal
of Geodynamics</a> to <a href="http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/03/080314-warming-quakes.html">National
Geographic</a>, to blogs reporting opinions of scientists (below). <br></p>

<p><br></p>

<p>Some intuitive calculation may help understanding:&nbsp;&nbsp; A cubic yard of
ice weighs nearly a ton.&nbsp;&nbsp; The Antarctic ice sheet is a few miles
thick.&nbsp; Earth adjusted to that immense weight over the millennia -
now, as ice caps melt, this weight is slowly lifting..&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </p></p>

<p><br>
<img alt="Glacier_weight_effects_LMB.png" src="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/Glacier_weight_effects_LMB.png" width="482" height="174" class="mt-image-center" style="text-align: center; display: block; margin: 0 auto 20px;" />
<br></p>

<p>Today the Pine Island Glacier in Antarctica is quickly melting downward
from the surface - dropping in altitude at nearly 16 meters per year.&nbsp;&nbsp;
With an area over 5 thousand square kilometers, this glacier holds a lot of cubic meters of ice and means that a lot of weight is now getting shifted into
the ocean. &nbsp; Similarly, the melting of glaciers in Greenland and
elsewhere will trigger seismically elastic reactions that should be noted
for their frequency, intensity and novel locations.<br><br></p>

<blockquote>
<b>
<a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35618526/ns/technology_and_science-science/">
&#8220;&#8230;relative to the time period from the mid-1970s to the mid-1990s, Earth has been more active over the past 15 years or so.&#8221; </b> <i> &#8212; geophysicist Stephen S. Gao, Missouri University of Science and Technology.  </i> </a>

</blockquote>

<p><br>
This idea is consistent for our age:&nbsp; <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropocene">The Anthropocene Epoch</a>
- a geological age where humans make a significant impact.&nbsp;&nbsp; Who knew
that human industrial CO2 emissions warming the atmosphere then melting
the ice and then the shifting weight would&nbsp;
provoke such a rapid and palpable reaction.&nbsp; Such a sudden, fast impact
of global warming has so far been missing from this crisis.&nbsp; <br>
<br>
It is worth watching carefully and keeping score.&nbsp; <br></p>

<p><br>
RP<br>
10-1-09<br></p>

<p><img alt="Ice_Mass.jpg" src="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/Ice_Mass.jpg" width="560" height="420" class="mt-image-none" style="" /></p>

<p><br></p>

<blockquote>

<b>Just how much does one of these ice sheets weigh?</b><br>

    1 cubic foot of water weighs 62.4 lbs./ft3<br>

        Ice (@ .9 specific gravity) = 56.16 lbs./ft3<br>

    1 square mile (5280&#8217; X 5280&#8217;) = 2.8 X 107 ft2<br>

        (2.8 X 107 ft2) X 56.16 lbs./ft2 = 1.57 X 109 lbs./mi2<br>

    Canadian Shield sheet (4000 mi2 X 4000 mi2) = 1.6 X 107 mi2<br>

        (1.57 X 109 lbs./mi2) X (1.6 X 107 mi2) = 2.5 X 1016 lbs./vertical foot<br>

    Assume 10,000&#8217; thick (2.5 X 1016 lbs.) X (1 X 104) = 2.5 X 1020 lbs.&nbsp;
        or 250,000,000,000,000,000,000 pounds!&nbsp;

        (Assume ice sheet was 10,000&#8217; thick = 561,600 lbs./ft2)&nbsp;

        or 281 tons of ice per square foot (3900 lbs./in2)!<br>

    And this is assuming that the entire sheet is composed of ice.&nbsp;If we assume that 30% of it is rock material, at an average specific gravity of 3.0, we can essentially double the total weight of the sheet.&nbsp;<br>

source:  <i>http://jersey.uoregon.edu/~mstrick/RogueComCollege/RCC_Lectures/Glaciers.html</i>

</blockquote>

<p><br>
&nbsp; &#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-&nbsp;News,  Sources and Links:<br>
<br>
University of London conference on Climate Forcing of Geological and Geomorphological hazards,  Oct 2, 2009  <a href="http://www.deccanherald.com/content/25152/earths-fiery-future.html">http://www.deccanherald.com/content/25152/earths-fiery-future.html</a>
<br></p>

<p><br>
Dr Margaret Lillian is an independent science journalist specializing
in global trends.<br></p>

<blockquote>As reported only this year, Harvard seismologist Göran
Ekström has
found a striking increase in the frequency of glacial quakes,
particularly in Greenland, but also in Alaska and Antarctica.<br>
Greenland quakes have risen from 6 to 15 a year between 1993 and 2002,
to 30 in 2003, 23 in 2004 and 32 in the first 10 months of 2005,
closely matching the rise in Greenland&#8217;s temperatures over the same
period. &nbsp; Their source was traced to surges and slips within ice sheets,
where rapid melting is causing water to collect under glaciers, making
them glide faster into the sea, triggering quakes&#8230; &nbsp;&nbsp; <br>

  <br>
The science suggests that as redistribution of the Earth&#8217;s mass induced
by global warming disturbs the relative equilibrium of its crust,
monumental forces in the form of increasing earthquakes, tsunamis and
volcanic activity could be unleashed.&nbsp;  And the forecasts from some
quarters are dramatic - - not only will the earth shake, it will spit
fire<br>
  <a href="http://climatecrisis.agorablogs.com/2009/09/13/will-global-warming-unleash-more-seismic-activity/"><br>
http://climatecrisis.agorablogs.com/2009/09/13/will-global-warming-unleash-more-seismic-activity/</a></blockquote>
<h4> Impact of Global Warming On Seismic Activity </h4>
Article by <span id="ctl15_panelUserDiplayName"> <a href="http://www.brighthub.com/members/onlinepro.aspx">Preetam Kaushik</a></span><span style="white-space: nowrap;"></span>&nbsp;&nbsp; published Apr 13, 2009&nbsp; <br>

Read more: <a href="http://www.brighthub.com/environment/science-environmental/articles/31846.aspx#ixzz0SiEWd5jO">http://www.brighthub.com/environment/science-environmental/articles/31846.aspx#ixzz0SiEWd5jO</a><br>
<blockquote><span>&#8230;opinion that is endorsed by geologists around the
world is that
glacial melting caused by global warming is causing a rise in water
levels beyond the bearing limit of the Earth&#8217;s crust. &nbsp; This, they
believe, is causing the spate of devastating geological events that
have struck nations in recent times.</span></blockquote>
<br>


<br>
WorldWatch Institute <br>
<a href="http://www.worldwatch.org/node/4388">http://www.worldwatch.org/node/4388</a><br>
<h4>Global Warming May Trigger Greater Seismic Activity</h4>
by Michael Renner on July 31, 2006
<blockquote>
  <p>The
melting of glaciers driven by global warming portends a seismically
turbulent future.&nbsp;  When glaciers melt, the massive weight on the Earth&#8217;s
crust is reduced, and the crust &#8220;bounces&#8221; back in what scientists call
an &#8220;isostatic rebound.&#8221;&nbsp;  This process can reactivate faults, increase
seismic activity, and lift pressure on magma chambers that feed
volcanoes.<br>

  </p>
</blockquote>

<p>More links:<br>
Sharon Begley, &#8220;How Melting Glaciers Alter Earth&#8217;s Surface, Spur
Quakes, Volcanoes,&#8221; <em>Wall Street Journal Online</em>, 9 June 2006.<br>
Link: <a href="http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB114981650181275742-sOx58NXvfKz2szefZXutgTSbaDI_20070608.html">http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB114981650181275742-sOx58NXvfKz2szefZXutgTSbaDI_20070608.html</a>;
and<br>
Bill McGuire, &#8220;Climate Change: Tearing the Earth Apart?,&#8221; <em>New
Scientist</em>, 26 May 2006, <br></p>

<p>Link: <a href="http://www.newscientist.com/channel/earth/mg19025531.300">http://www.newscientist.com/channel/earth/mg19025531.300</a>.
<br>
<!-- if the node is a page, rather than in a listing --><!--paging_filter--> <br>
American Scientist 1998&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href="http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/pub/j-klhlaup">http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/pub/j-klhlaup</a><br>
<br>
The Guardian&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/sep/08/climatechange">http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/sep/08/climatechange</a><br>
<br>
<a href="http://environment.about.com/od/globalwarming/a/earthquakes.htm:">http://environment.about.com/od/globalwarming/a/earthquakes.htm:</a><br></p>

<blockquote>Writing in <i>New Scientist</i> magazine, Bill McGuire,
professor of
geological hazards at University College in London, said: &#8220;All over the
world evidence is stacking up that changes in global climate can and do
affect the frequencies of earthquakes, volcanic eruptions and
catastrophic sea-floor landslides.&nbsp;  Not only has this happened several
times throughout Earth&#8217;s history, the evidence suggests it is happening
again.&#8221;<br>
</blockquote>

<p>Melting Ice Sheets Can Cause Earthquakes, Study Finds <a href="http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/03/080314-warming-quakes.html">http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/03/080314-warming-quakes.html</a><br><br>Thinning of Ice Sheets&nbsp; http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090923143331.htm<br>
<br>
Pine Island Glacier <a href="http://www.spri.cam.ac.uk/research/projects/pineislandglacier/"><br>
http://www.spri.cam.ac.uk/research/projects/pineislandglacier/</a><br></p>

<p>This is not a new notion.  &nbsp; Called Isostatic rebound.  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-glacial_rebound">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-glacial_rebound</a>  &nbsp;  It is just that the inevitable evidence may be starting to be seen now<br>
<br></p>

<p>http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show<em>mesg&amp;forum=115&amp;topic</em>id=208670&amp;mesg_id=208719 <br>.<br></p>

<p>http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/sep/06/global-warming-natural-disasters-conference</p>

<p><br>
http://www.abuhrc.org/newsmedia/Pages/event_view.aspx?event=5</p>

<p><br>
http://www.springerlink.com/content/vp41l1x837289662/
<br></p>

<p><a href="http://climatechangepsychology.blogspot.com/2009/08/pine-island-glacier-antarctica-thinning.html">http://climatechangepsychology.blogspot.com/2009/08/pine-island-glacier-antarctica-thinning.html</a><br>
<a href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/08/090814100105.htm">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/08/090814100105.htm</a></p>
]]>
        

    </content>
</entry>

<entry>
    <title>Should science set global warming policy ?</title>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/2009/02/should-science-set-global-warming-policy.html" />
    <id>tag:www.climatedebatedaily.org,2009://17.112</id>

    <published>2009-02-25T06:54:35Z</published>
    <updated>2009-03-07T20:13:36Z</updated>

    <summary>Science defines global warming so well, and science can tell us how to best mitigate the problem What is the optimal global warming public policy?...</summary>
    <author>
        <name>Richard Pauli</name>
        
    </author>
    
        <category term="Public Policy" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#category" />
    
        <category term="solutions" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#category" />
    
    <category term="globalwarmingpolicy" label="global warming policy" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#tag" />
    
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/">
        <![CDATA[<p><p>Science defines global warming so well, and science can tell us how to best mitigate the problem </p></p>

<p>What is the optimal global warming public policy?  </p>

<p>Any sane and sober scientist can tell you what to do about global warming: <strong> immediately stop carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions. &nbsp; </strong> That&#8217;s the optimal choice. &nbsp; Anything else is sub-optimal. &nbsp;You may define optimal any way you like.  </p>

<p>We need to minimize CO2 emissions - the lowest minimum is zero - or in a better world it is less than zero - where we actually remove CO2 from the atmosphere - to sequester it.&nbsp;  Our policy must act to move CO2 levels down fast. &nbsp; The fact that it takes about 40 years to begin to see the climate effects from a change in CO2 emissions, gives the problem a special dimension.  &nbsp; So minimize CO2 today and see the levels begin to fall in 40 years. &nbsp; And tragically, the last 40 years of CO2 emissions have been the heaviest ever.  &nbsp; Even with our best effort, things will be a mess until about 2050.</p>



<p>And the second parameter best describes when we should act: right now is the perfect time. &nbsp; Any other time is less than perfect.  &nbsp;The further we drift from immediately, the further we move from good.  &nbsp;The longer we wait,  the worse the consequences.  &nbsp; So right now is perfectly good, to act later is less so, and much later is catastrophically bad. &nbsp; It is troubling that we don&#8217;t really know much about the interim choices in-between the best time of now and the worst time -of way-off or never. &nbsp; Those in-between areas are the messy crap-shoot areas, the zones of confusion and bickering.  &nbsp;Delay and procrastination makes things worse. &nbsp; Except for the doom of total inaction -  no one can know the physical consequences of acting at any politically convenient time in the future. &nbsp; If we spend a lot of time arguing about the best time between now and never to take action, then we are moving farther away from our goal.</p>

<p>So atmospheric sciences calls upon us to act fast, act completely. &nbsp; Now we just need a science-driven policy designed to respect these rules and optimize our actions. &nbsp;Of course, because it will be difficult and painful, humans will not like to face the tasks ahead.  &nbsp; So after squirming uncomfortably for a while, you may realize what must happen.  </p>



<!-- Start of Current CO2 Widget-->
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href=http://co2now.org/><img src="http://co2now.org/images/stories/widgets/co2_widget_kyoto_364_graph.gif" alt="Atmospheric CO2 was 364 ppm when the Kyoto Protocol was created." width="364" height="303" border="0" /></a></p>
<!-- End of Current CO2 Widget-->




<p><strong> We should immediately minimize, control, and stop carbon dioxide emissions and shut down CO2 sources. </strong> &nbsp;Most CO2 comes from the combustion of hydrocarbon fuels. &nbsp; That would be coal, oil, gas, alcohol and even the combusion from firewood, trash and wild fires.  These are all carbon based fuels that release carbon dioxide.  &nbsp; Because it combusts with oxygen, every pound of carbon fuel will make more carbon dioxide than the beginning carbon fuel before combustion. For instance a pound of gasoline makes almost 3 pounds of CO2.  Each fuel is figured differently, but for all the carbon fuels, expect more carbon dioxide - multiply the weight by 2 or 3. &nbsp; So a trainload of coal, gives us 3 trainloads of carbon dioxide.</p>

<p>Only when we make a huge and complex effort can we stop emitting CO2. &nbsp; Governments, as they move to protect citizens and secure our posterity, can act with force or with taxation. &nbsp;They can use taxes to change behavior - like taxing alcohol or taxing tobacco heavily. &nbsp;  Rarely do governments tax so severely as to force a business out of existence. &nbsp; Or governments can use force to smash and destroy bad things - like busting meth labs, moonshine stills or foreign poppy fields.   </p>

<p>That&#8217;s one way to handle the CO2 emitters - just blow them all up. &nbsp; The problem is just about everybody uses them and enjoys the cheap energy of hydrocarbon fuels. &nbsp;Not just cars, much of our electricity for homes and industry is made from burning coal or oil. The energy is good, the carbon source is not. &nbsp; We are getting skilled at translating one form of energy into another. &nbsp; The usual process starts with heat to make steam which drives turbine generators that makes electricity. &nbsp;  Burning coal is a big source of heat for making electricity; nuclear energy makes steam for the same reason but without CO2. &nbsp; But wind and solar make electricity directly from a solar panel or generator. &nbsp; There are plenty of clean energy sources.</p>

<p>So we have to act quickly, very quickly - the optimal time is right now - to change rapidly to non-carbon fuel sources - called clean energy: wind, solar, nuclear, geothermal, tidal, etc. &nbsp; We need to make energy without making carbon dioxide. &nbsp; Most important is that we have to do away with many of the carbon fuels that we use today - oil, gas and coal. &nbsp; They should all go away - completely, and the sooner the better.</p>

<p>OK.  &nbsp; From a science prospective, public policy - defining what governments should do - all this is pretty straightforward. &nbsp; If we want to design a process that drives change as soon as possible then governments can use force, or they can tax. &nbsp; Later they can spend the money from the taxes in smart ways like health insurance and building railroads.</p>

<p> Here is a simple - two part proposal that nicely fits the science requirements: </p>

<strong>  Make clean energy sources </strong><br>
All carbon based fuels should be tax free when used for the explicit purpose of manufacturing and establishing clean fuel systems&#8230; this might include wind, solar, nuclear, geothermal, tidal and the supporting industries for them. &nbsp; Build clean energy as soon as possible.
<p><br>

<strong>Eliminate dirty energy sources </strong><br>
ALL other, ANY other carbon fuels usage should be taxed, heavily taxed, and taxed so heavily that it puts carbon fuel companies out of existence in the fastest way possible. &nbsp; Eliminate CO2 emissions immediately and completely.

<p>

That&#8217;s it.  &nbsp; All done.
</p>

<p>That&#8217;s the simple solution. &nbsp;I know it is hard to enact. &nbsp; People can do it themselves or can ask governments to help make it happen.
</p>

<p>Other solutions such as allowing partial emissions or permitting gradual change over a few decades while gambling with carbon credits  - all of those options are wild cards, hard to control, hard to evaluate, require too much time, are easily derailed and have poor chances of success.  &nbsp;We are stepping into areas with no historical precedent. &nbsp; People will clamor for less-than-optimal change, but anything less is dangerously unknown, unproven and unaccepted by science.</p>

<p>As we wrangle with the colossal changes necessary to adapt and mitigate, the best way to boldly step into the future is armed with optimal solutions. </p>

<p>Governments can know this too. </p>

<p><br>
Richard Pauli<br>
Feb 2009</p>

<p><br></p>

<p><blockquote></p>

<p>cross posted to <a href="http://www.noenergytomorrow.org/2009/02/let-science-set-global-warming-policy.html">TaxGlobalWarming.org</a></p>

<script type="text/javascript">
var gaJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ? "https://ssl." : "http://www.");
document.write(unescape("%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost + "google-analytics.com/ga.js' type='text/javascript'%3E%3C/script%3E"));
</script>

<script type="text/javascript">
try {
var pageTracker = _gat._getTracker("UA-7807024-1");
pageTracker._trackPageview();
} catch(err) {}</script>
]]>
        

    </content>
</entry>

<entry>
    <title>New debate - treachery or delusion?</title>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/2009/01/new-debate---treachery-or-delusion.html" />
    <id>tag:www.climatedebatedaily.org,2009://17.102</id>

    <published>2009-02-01T06:26:58Z</published>
    <updated>2009-09-23T04:55:16Z</updated>

    <summary><![CDATA[Here's a debate:&nbsp; Is AGW denialism treachery or delusion? Global warming is unfolding faster than expected.CO2 makes global warming worse, and happen soonerCarbon fuels generate...]]></summary>
    <author>
        <name>Richard Pauli</name>
        
    </author>
    
        <category term="Angry Rants" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#category" />
    
        <category term="treachery" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#category" />
    
    <category term="agwtreachery" label="AGW treachery" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#tag" />
    
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/">
        <![CDATA[<font style="font-size: 1.25em;">Here's a debate:&nbsp;<b> Is AGW denialism treachery or delusion? </b><br /><br /></font><span class="mt-enclosure mt-enclosure-image" style="display: inline;"><img alt="ChasAddamsCrop.jpg" src="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/ChasAddamsCrop.jpg" class="mt-image-none" style="" height="445" width="590" /></span><br /><font style="font-size: 1.25em;"><br /><br />Global warming is unfolding faster than expected.<br />CO2 makes global warming worse, and happen sooner<br />Carbon fuels generate CO2; more CO2 emissions make the problem worse. <br />The only known way to reduce CO2 is to reduce fossil fuel combustion<br />All this is well known and agreed to by all -&nbsp; except by denialists<br />These people disagree, deny and obstruct by claiming CO2 is blameless<br />They may be delusional, or they may be paid propagandists<br />
Either way they are wrong.<br />If we work to make our world safe, and somebody purposefully gets in the way, <br />
They are making us unsafe.&nbsp; Even if they really believe otherwise.<br />Appeasing CO2 polluters hastens human demise<br />An obstructionist denier who blocks or delays information is harming everyone, even themselves.<br />Even if they believe it themselves, they pitch scientific falsehoods.<br />Denialists are not acting like flat-earth believers, or Holocaust deniers, or Elvis Spotters. <br />These are not silent believers, these are active obstructionists.<br />While they are entitled to their beliefs, they are not permitted to endanger others.<br />
Their actions hinder our survival</font><span class="mt-enclosure mt-enclosure-image" style="display: inline;"><img alt="CAddams.jpg" src="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/CAddams.jpg" class="mt-image-right" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 20px 20px; float: right;" height="94" width="85" /></span><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">.&nbsp; <br />No matter what their beliefs or intentions,<br />Their actions amount to treachery and sabotage.<br />And we cannot allow them to continue.&nbsp; <br />
They are now on notice that this is very serious.<br />
Your belief in delusional magic is yours alone. Keep it to yourself. <br />
If you are a paid shill from a carbon fuel company, paid to believe something, <br />
paid to promote and influence a falsehood, then your actions are treason.<br />
You betray a human future with your allegiance to industry or money.<br />
Your intentional obstruction is no longer acceptable. <br />
As global warming disasters pile up and get worse,<br />
your voice will sound shrill and crazy to those of us suffering.<br />
You might want to hold your beliefs in silence. <br /><br />
If you hold contrarian denialism in your mind,<br />
it will be hard to distinguish from professional public relations<br />
Neither is benign.<br /><br /><br />This issue is discussed further in <a href="http://climateprogress.org/2008/07/04/polluter-appeasement-should-we-question-the-patriotism-of-deniers/">Climate Progress</a><br /><br /></font><blockquote><blockquote><p>If we fail to heed the warning of our top scientists, if we fail to
adopt the low-cost strategies need to avert the incalculably high-cost
consequences (widespread desertification, large and rapid sea level
rise, loss of the inland glaciers, extinction of most species, fatal
acidification of the ocean, and on and on), nobody is going to be
writing books labeling us "the greatest generation." We will at best be
"the greediest generation" and perhaps even "the first unpatriotic
generation" since we were the first who would not bear any burden or
pay any price to preserve life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness
for the next generation.</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>But that is how future generations will label us. We haven't failed
yet. Should we question the patriotism of deniers? That is a tough
call, made even tougher since they question our patriotism even as we
fight to save their children and their children's children from their
own ignorance and indifference.</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>I suppose the answer is "no," we shouldn't stoop to their tactics --
readers can weigh in with other views -- but I will say that if we are
going to save this great nation, progressives are going to have to
fight back much harder against the despicable actions of the deniers
who practice polluter appeasement. Whatever we are currently doing, it
ain't enough.</p>
<p>The time to act is yesterday.</p><br /><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">&nbsp;</font><br /> </blockquote></blockquote>

<script type="text/javascript">
var gaJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ? "https://ssl." : "http://www.");
document.write(unescape("%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost + "google-analytics.com/ga.js' type='text/javascript'%3E%3C/script%3E"));
</script>
<script type="text/javascript">
try {
var pageTracker = _gat._getTracker("UA-7807024-1");
pageTracker._trackPageview();
} catch(err) {}</script>]]>
        
    </content>
</entry>

<entry>
    <title>New debate: Hopeful or Doomed? </title>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/2009/01/new-debate-hopeful-or-doomed.html" />
    <id>tag:www.climatedebatedaily.org,2009://17.101</id>

    <published>2009-01-29T00:11:14Z</published>
    <updated>2009-03-07T20:15:23Z</updated>

    <summary>The answer is both: the day breaks both to doom and a hopeful dawn. A good friend writes of his internal debate on global warming....</summary>
    <author>
        <name>Richard Pauli</name>
        
    </author>
    
        <category term="debates" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#category" />
    
    <category term="decimation" label="decimation" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#tag" />
    <category term="hopefulordoomed" label="hopeful or doomed" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#tag" />
    
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/">
        <![CDATA[<p>The answer is both: the day breaks both to doom and a hopeful dawn. <br></p>

<p><span class="mt-enclosure mt-enclosure-image" style="display: inline;"><img alt="dualDayBreaks.jpg" src="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/dualDayBreaks.jpg" width="531" height="206" class="mt-image-none" style="" /></span></p>

<p><strong>A good friend writes </strong>of his internal debate on global warming. &nbsp; Are we doomed or is there reason for hope?</p>


<p>
We seem to agree that - at least for now - Obama is the very best leader if we want to see any of our DNA make it into the future.&nbsp;  Global population decimation is inevitable.&nbsp; Decimation has a dual meaning; it can be 1-out-of-10 or nine-out-of-ten. &nbsp; By the end of the century, some scenarios, derived from IPCC models,&nbsp; say that our global population of 9 billion will probably be one billion - and only if we are very lucky and smart.&nbsp; Starting now  </p>


<p><a
 href="http://www.rushprnews.com/2009/01/26/the-vanishing-face-of-gaia-brings-hope-to-global-warming/">Although
James Lovelock</a><a
 href="http://www.rushprnews.com/2009/01/26/the-vanishing-face-of-gaia-brings-hope-to-global-warming/">
</a>may stand firmly in the alarmist wing of climatologists, nothing
he says is impossible.&nbsp; All is within model scenarios.&nbsp; As you can see
from the combined graphic on the site&nbsp; <a href="http://localsteps.org/howbad.html">http://localsteps.org/howbad.html</a>&nbsp;&nbsp;
Science can describe the projections for how bad it will be, we didn&#8217;t really know when things might unfold, but now with early arctic melting - we are starting to know the when.</p>

 <p>Every day, I am ever more astounded that there is not rioting in the streets
over this issue, because soon enough (years hopefully) there will be
food riots, and refugee riots, and climate refugees etc. 
</p>

<p><blockquote><strong>
&#8220;If your children ever found out how lame you really are,  they&#8217;d murder you in your sleep&#8221;  -Frank Zappa
</blockquote></strong></p>

<p>Its a pity that Obama is so nice.&nbsp;&nbsp; Human civilization needs a Climate Czar
with the ruthlessness of a Stalin.&nbsp; Otherwise we will have to wait until
a sufficient number of our citizens, along with other global
citizens, get the message, learn the science and decide to act to
assure the future of human life.</p>

<p>But I am buoyed by the recent reports and the direction we are going.&nbsp;&nbsp;
<a href="http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2009/20090126_climate.html">The NOAA
report the other day had some power</a>.&nbsp; <a
 href="http://www.columbia.edu/%7Ejeh1/">Dr Hansen always has something
new to say</a>.&nbsp; Be sure to check&nbsp; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.climateprogress.org">www.climateprogress.org</a> for the news and the
policy stuff. &nbsp; And <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.realclimate.org">www.realclimate.org</a> for the science overview to a
lay audience.&nbsp;&nbsp; We are in a time of rapid change now. <br>
<br>
We are in constant rumination over doom or hopes.&nbsp;&nbsp; The astounding
enormity of&nbsp; our colossal blunder is so difficult to apprehend.&nbsp; Denialism
is a normal psychological reaction.&nbsp; In order to survive humans have to act with ruthless
intelligence and logic.&nbsp; If we are lucky and smart now, in 1000 years, it will be a new species that emerges </p>

<p><br>
Personally,&nbsp; I suppress my anger, but refuse to suppress the truth.&nbsp;&nbsp;
One neighbor is a retired professor of Atmospheric sciences, who tells
me that many scientists have shrugged and moved on with their
lives - enjoying their days.&nbsp;They no longer speak out. &nbsp;   Scientists think it is up to politics and human will-power now.&nbsp; They have done their job, and really shouted all they can. <br>
<br>
Yep.&nbsp; Both doomed and optimistic. &nbsp; Now we can debate how much of each.  <br>
<br></p>

<script type="text/javascript">
var gaJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ? "https://ssl." : "http://www.");
document.write(unescape("%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost + "google-analytics.com/ga.js' type='text/javascript'%3E%3C/script%3E"));
</script>

<script type="text/javascript">
try {
var pageTracker = _gat._getTracker("UA-7807024-1");
pageTracker._trackPageview();
} catch(err) {}</script>
]]>
        

    </content>
</entry>

<entry>
    <title>CO2 effects well into the year 3000</title>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/2009/01/co2-effects-to-last-through-the-year-3000.html" />
    <id>tag:www.climatedebatedaily.org,2009://17.100</id>

    <published>2009-01-28T04:49:48Z</published>
    <updated>2009-03-07T20:16:13Z</updated>

    <summary>And our children&#8217;s children cannot escape it either. Even if we suddenly halted all CO2 and reverted to the pure state of Adam and Eve,...</summary>
    <author>
        <name>Richard Pauli</name>
        
    </author>
    
        <category term="doom" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#category" />
    
        <category term="future" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#category" />
    
    <category term="co21000yearsnoaa" label="CO2 1000 years NOAA" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#tag" />
    
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/">
        <![CDATA[<p><strong>And our children&#8217;s children cannot escape it either.</strong><br /></p>

<p>Even if we suddenly halted all CO2 and reverted to the pure state of Adam and Eve, the damage of today will last a millenium.  &nbsp;CO2 causes irreversible damage for at least 1000 years </p>


<p>
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OxKTtViCW3w&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OxKTtViCW3w&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
</p>

<p>
Interview with NOAA senior scientist Susan Solomon

</p>

<p>
<a href="http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2009/20090126_climate.html">The original NOAA press release Jan 26, 2008</a>
</p>

<p>

<hr>
<blockquote>

    <!-- BEGIN CONTENT CONTAINER //-->
    <div id="contentArea">
        <!-- InstanceBeginEditable name="userBody" -->

        <h2>New Study Shows Climate Change Largely Irreversible</h2>
        <p id="releaseDate">January 26, 2009</p>
        <p>A new scientific study led by the National  Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration reaches a powerful conclusion about the  climate change caused by future increases of carbon dioxide:  to a large extent, there&#8217;s  no going back. </p>

        <p>The pioneering study, led by NOAA  senior scientist Susan Solomon, shows how changes in surface temperature,  rainfall, and sea level are largely irreversible for more than 1,000 years  after carbon dioxide (CO<sub>2</sub>) emissions are completely stopped. The  findings appear during the week of January 26 in the Proceedings of the National  Academy of Sciences.</p>
        <p>&#8220;Our study convinced us that current  choices regarding carbon dioxide emissions will have legacies that will  irreversibly change the planet,&#8221; said Solomon, who is based at <a href="http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/">NOAA&#8217;s  Earth System Research Laboratory</a> in Boulder, Colo.<br />
          <br />
          &#8220;It has long been known that some of  the carbon dioxide emitted by human activities stays in the atmosphere for  thousands of years,&#8221; Solomon said. &#8220;But the new study advances the  understanding of how this affects the climate system.&#8221;  </p>
        <p>The study examines the consequences of  allowing CO<sub>2</sub> to build up to several different peak levels beyond  present-day concentrations of 385 parts per million and then completely halting  the emissions after the peak. The  authors found that the scientific evidence is strong enough to quantify some  irreversible climate impacts, including rainfall changes in certain key  regions, and global sea level rise. </p>

        <p>If CO<sub>2</sub> is allowed to peak  at 450-600 parts per million, the results would include persistent decreases in  dry-season rainfall that are comparable to the 1930s North American Dust Bowl  in zones including southern Europe, northern Africa, southwestern North  America, southern Africa and western Australia. </p>
        <p>The study notes that decreases in  rainfall that last not just for a few decades but over centuries are expected  to have a range of impacts that differ by region. Such regional impacts include  decreasing human water supplies, increased fire frequency, ecosystem change and  expanded deserts. Dry-season wheat and maize agriculture in regions of rain-fed  farming, such as Africa, would also be  affected.</p>
        <p>Climate impacts were less severe at  lower peak levels. But at all levels added carbon dioxide and its climate  effects linger because of the ocean. </p>
        <p>&#8220;In the long run, both carbon dioxide  loss and heat transfer depend on the same physics of deep-ocean mixing. The two work against each other to keep  temperatures almost constant for more than a thousand years, and that makes  carbon dioxide unique among the major climate gases,&#8221;  said Solomon. </p>
        <p>The scientists emphasize that  increases in CO<sub>2</sub> that occur in this century &#8220;lock  in&#8221;  sea level rise that would slowly follow in the next 1,000 years. Considering just the expansion of warming  ocean waters&#8212;without melting glaciers and polar ice sheets&#8212;the  authors find that the irreversible global average sea level rise by the year  3000 would be at least 1.3-3.2 feet (0.4-1.0  meter) if CO<sub>2</sub> peaks at 600 parts per million, and double that amount  if CO<sub>2</sub> peaks at 1,000 parts per million. </p>

        <p>&#8220;Additional contributions to sea level  rise from the melting of glaciers and polar ice sheets are too uncertain to  quantify in the same way,&#8221; said Solomon. &#8220;They could be even larger but we just  don&#8217;t  have the same level of knowledge about those terms. We presented the minimum  sea level rise that we can expect from well-understood physics, and we were  surprised that it was so large.&#8221;</p>
        <p>Rising sea levels would cause &#8220;&#8230;irreversible  commitments to future changes in the geography of the Earth, since many coastal  and island features would ultimately become submerged,&#8221;  the authors write.</p>
        <p>Geoengineering to remove carbon  dioxide from the atmosphere was not considered in the study. &#8220;Ideas  about taking the carbon dioxide away after the world puts it in have been  proposed, but right now those are very speculative,&#8221;  said Solomon.</p>
        <p>The authors relied on measurements as  well as many different models to support the understanding of their results.  They focused on drying of particular regions and on thermal expansion of the  ocean because observations suggest that humans are contributing to changes that  have already been measured.   </p>
        <p>Besides Solomon, the study&#8217;s  authors are Gian-Kasper Plattner and Reto Knutti of ETH Zurich, Switzerland,  and Pierre Friedlingstein of Institut Pierre Simon Laplace, Gif-Sur-Yvette,  France.</p>
        NOAA understands and  predicts changes in the Earth&#8217;s environment, from the depths of the ocean to  the surface of the sun, and conserves and manages our coastal and marine  resources.<!-- InstanceEndEditable -->    </div>      
  <!-- END CONTENT CONTAINER //-->
</p>

<p></blockquote>
<hr></p>

<p>

</p>

<p>The latest CO2 measurements are current and will change as soon as recorded by scientists. </p>

<p>
<!-- Start of Current CO2 Widget by Pro Oxygen-->
<p><a href=http://co2now.org/><img src=http://co2now.org/images/stories/widgets/co2_widget_pro_oxygen_300.jpg alt="Chart of the current trend for atmospheric CO2" width="300" height="201" border="0" /></a></p>
<!-- End of Current CO2 Widget by Pro Oxygen-->

</p>

<script type="text/javascript">
var gaJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ? "https://ssl." : "http://www.");
document.write(unescape("%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost + "google-analytics.com/ga.js' type='text/javascript'%3E%3C/script%3E"));
</script>

<script type="text/javascript">
try {
var pageTracker = _gat._getTracker("UA-7807024-1");
pageTracker._trackPageview();
} catch(err) {}</script>
]]>
        

    </content>
</entry>

<entry>
    <title>Behavioral Economics Ultimatum Game</title>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/2009/01/behavioral-economics-ultimate-game.html" />
    <id>tag:www.climatedebatedaily.org,2009://17.96</id>

    <published>2009-01-09T23:41:44Z</published>
    <updated>2009-06-29T08:14:25Z</updated>

    <summary><![CDATA[The Ultimatum Game is a deceptively simple test of human economic attitude. It goes like this: &nbsp; The experimenter tells two subjects that he will...]]></summary>
    <author>
        <name>Richard Pauli</name>
        
    </author>
    
        <category term="Behavioral Economics" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#category" />
    
        <category term="Psychology" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#category" />
    
    <category term="behaviouraleconomics" label="Behavioural economics" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#tag" />
    
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/">
        <![CDATA[<p><p><strong>The Ultimatum Game is a deceptively simple test of human economic attitude.</strong></p></p>

<p>


It goes like this: 
&nbsp;  The experimenter tells two subjects that he will give one of them a sum of money 
that they may split. &nbsp;  One person will decide how much to give to the other.  &nbsp;The other person may accept or reject the offer. &nbsp;  If accepted then both keep whatever money they hold.  &nbsp; However, if the other person deems it unfair then by refusing money prevents both of them from getting any cash. &nbsp; Session over. &nbsp; The test is given once only.</p>


<p>
In examining the results for the Ultimatum Game it seems that many groups will accept a small 
percentage. &nbsp; If the experimenter gave 100 dollars, then $5 might suffice. &nbsp; This changed with Western subjects, who measured 30-40%&#8230; meaning they were willing to cut off all wealth until that fairness level.&nbsp;  Some even insisted on 50%. </p>



<p>Economists used to think that we, as rational actors, would always choose the best deal. &nbsp; The irrational choice of cutting off all money and ending play - was difficult to understand. &nbsp; Was it the sense of fairness? &nbsp; Game theory and behavioral economics are pretty new fields of study. &nbsp; One can see how it may apply to the economics of global warming. 
</p>

<p>A related experiment is the dictator game where the players who make the offers get to keep their share no matter what. &nbsp; Predictably they make less equal offers, keeping more of the cash. &nbsp; The second mover always accepted unequal money. </p>


<p>So one privileged person, shares a bit with someone less privileged.&nbsp;  The less privilegled fellow see this is fine, until he sees the privileged one cross some sort of line that is going too far&#8230;. like Billion dollar fortunes from bailouts that will raise taxes and condemn our future.  &nbsp;And like a carbon fuel industry selling a dangerous product that kills our future.  &nbsp;That crosses the line.  &nbsp;Increased stakes seem to make subjects more pliant toward small rewards </p>

<p>
The privileged ones get vast wealth, vast - the recipient has generations of cheap power, cheap 
electricity, cheap mortgages, rising value of real estate, easy credit, rising stocks.  &nbsp;The wealth runoff to the recipient is a very small fraction of the vast wealth.
</p>

<p>It is easy to apply this to modern economics - Think of a great experimenter bestowing vast free wealth to humans in the form of Forests, Ocean harvests, Mining ores, and Oil and coal.&nbsp;  All were thought to be essentially free, bestowed like money in the Ultimatum Game experiment.&nbsp;  The initial recipients redistributing a portion of the wealth to all others: employees, clients, stock holders and consumers. &nbsp; The ratio of owner wealth to consumer wealth is something other than 0 and certainly not 100% - At some time it might have been 5% and now maybe 30% [Students in economics will write many papers describing the percentage of this wealth.] &nbsp;Was it 30%?  </p>

<p>
 The implicit rule of this real life Ultimatum Game is an honest description of the terms of the 
deal, and promise of safety.</p>


<p>  The Ultimatum Game starts with the agreement that all the costs will 
be known. &nbsp; Free coal is dug and sold cheaply, and we get warm electricity. &nbsp;  But the soot and CO2 poison life itself and our 30% share (or whatever percentage) is gone - reduced to nothing - or vastly lower.</p>

<p>
So the Ultimatum Game is that human recipients are beginning to demand a halt to this play - 
asking for a new agreement.  &nbsp; The carbon fuel companies have reduced the cost of oil, kept coal cheap in effort to move up the percentage of wealth offered to the others. &nbsp;  We tacitly accept, keep driving and heating and continue the game.
</p>

<p>Now however we are about to feel the true cost of the carbon economy. &nbsp; Any further CO2 output moves our species demise closer. &nbsp; Even a payoff all the way to 100% is not a good deal if no one survives. &nbsp; Many will ask the game play canceled.   </p>

<p>Those who adopt the dictator stance of economic transaction will be rudely shocked to discover that C02 and atmospheric science does not negotiate with economists. </p>

<p>Richard Pauli </p>

<br>


<hr>
<p>More reading in behavioral economics and global warming:</p>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimatum_game">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimatum_game</a><br>
<a href="http://www.economics.rpi.edu/workingpapers/rpi0701.pdf">http://www.economics.rpi.edu/workingpapers/rpi0701.pdf</a><br>
<a href="http://ideas.repec.org/p/rpi/rpiwpe/0701.html">http://ideas.repec.org/p/rpi/rpiwpe/0701.html</a><br>
<a href="http://noimpactman.typepad.com/blog/2008/07/human-motivatio.html">http://noimpactman.typepad.com/blog/2008/07/human-motivatio.html</a><br>
<a href="http://tonysclimateblog.blogspot.com/2008/02/behavioral-economics.html">http://tonysclimateblog.blogspot.com/2008/02/behavioral-economics.html</a><br>
<a href="http://europe.theoildrum.com/tag/behavioral_economics">http://europe.theoildrum.com/tag/behavioral_economics</a><br>
<a href="http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/10/21/quick-dirty-literature-review-for-the-ultimatum-game.html">http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/10/21/quick-dirty-literature-review-for-the-ultimatum-game.html</a><br>
<a href="http://www.fte.org/capitalism/activities/ultimatum/index.html">http://www.fte.org/capitalism/activities/ultimatum/index.html</a><br>

<hr>
<br>
<blockquote>
<p>&#8220;The policy recommendations of most economists are based on the rational actor model of 
human behavior. Behavior is assumed to be self-regarding, preferences are assumed to be 
stable, and decisions are assumed to be unaffected by social context or frame of reference. The 
related fields of behavioral economics, game theory, and neuroscience have confirmed that 
human behavior is other regarding, and that people exhibit systematic patterns of 
decision-making that are &#8220;irrational&#8221; according to the standard behavioral model&#8230;. the standard economic approach to climate change policy, with its almost exclusive emphasis on rational responses to monetary incentives, is seriously flawed. In fact, monetary incentives may actually be counter-productive. Humans are unique among animal species in their ability to cooperate across cultures, geographical space and generations. Tapping into this uniquely human attribute, and understanding how cooperation is enforced, holds the key to limiting the potentially calamitous effects of global climate change.&#8221;    <a href="http://www.economics.rpi.edu/workingpapers/rpi0701.pdf">http://www.economics.rpi.edu/workingpapers/rpi0701.pdf</a></p>
</blockquote>

<p>
<i>
Cross posted to  http:theboywhodeniedwolf.com 
</i>

</p>

<script type="text/javascript">
var gaJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ? "https://ssl." : "http://www.");
document.write(unescape("%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost + "google-analytics.com/ga.js' type='text/javascript'%3E%3C/script%3E"));
</script>

<script type="text/javascript">
try {
var pageTracker = _gat._getTracker("UA-7807024-1");
pageTracker._trackPageview();
} catch(err) {}</script>
]]>
        

    </content>
</entry>

<entry>
    <title>Humans shall persist and thrive - Pro or Con?</title>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/2008/12/humans-shall-persist-and-thrive---pro-or-con.html" />
    <id>tag:www.climatedebatedaily.org,2008://17.79</id>

    <published>2008-12-13T20:15:54Z</published>
    <updated>2009-03-07T20:17:51Z</updated>

    <summary><![CDATA[Crazy is doing the same thing over-and-over and expecting a different result.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Climatedebatedaily.com continues crazy postings trying to establish and prop up a false debate...]]></summary>
    <author>
        <name>Richard Pauli</name>
        
    </author>
    
        <category term="Criticism" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#category" />
    
        <category term="debates" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#category" />
    
    <category term="crazy" label="Crazy" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#tag" />
    <category term="debate" label="debate" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#tag" />
    
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/">
        <![CDATA[<font style="font-size: 1.25em;"><i>Crazy is doing the same thing over-and-over and expecting a different result.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</i> <br /><br /><a href="http://climatedebatedaily.com/">Climatedebatedaily.<b>com</b></a> continues crazy postings trying to establish and prop up a false debate - promoting doubt about global warming.&nbsp; More accurately their own words claim they are debating "Calls to Action" or "Dissenting Voices "&nbsp; (inaction).&nbsp; But that is not the debate I read there.<br /><br />Their headings actually are saying "Do we act or not?"&nbsp;&nbsp; And I can see a reasonable discussion on that question.&nbsp;&nbsp; But looking at the content on each side, they are not really debating what they claim.&nbsp; Their global warming postings seem to be divided between new science discoveries versus the magical thinking of global warming denialists.&nbsp; Science verses religion is an old, tired debate.<br /><br /></font><span class="mt-enclosure mt-enclosure-image" style="display: inline;"><img alt="suncloudss.jpg" src="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/suncloudss.jpg" class="mt-image-right" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 20px 20px; float: right;" width="219" height="336" /></span><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">They seem to want to divert and delude us from facing the real issue: human extinction.&nbsp; Do we want to accept it?&nbsp;&nbsp; Maybe they can re-label their standings as a debate like:&nbsp; Pro-extinction and Con-extinction<br /><br />It is crazy continuing to criticize climatedebatedaily.com.&nbsp; They will <br />never change.&nbsp; So I am expanding my messaging beyond theirs.&nbsp; It is time to ponder the real issue:&nbsp; "Humans shall persist and thrive - Pro or Con"&nbsp; <br /><br /></font><font style="font-size: 1.25em;"> They can frame the debate through the selection of materials they choose to post.&nbsp; "</font><i>... of what ultimately goes onto the page, the editors' decisions 
are final.</i><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">" <br /></font><font style="font-size: 1.25em;"><br />So when I ask them (ClimateDebateDaily.com) to step up and start talking about the real issue - I know that is a crazy request. <br /><br />Are we a crazy species? &nbsp; That's still another debate. <br /></font><br />

<script type="text/javascript">
var gaJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ? "https://ssl." : "http://www.");
document.write(unescape("%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost + "google-analytics.com/ga.js' type='text/javascript'%3E%3C/script%3E"));
</script>
<script type="text/javascript">
try {
var pageTracker = _gat._getTracker("UA-7807024-1");
pageTracker._trackPageview();
} catch(err) {}</script>
]]>
        
    </content>
</entry>

<entry>
    <title>Just up ahead...</title>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/2008/12/just-up-ahead.html" />
    <id>tag:www.climatedebatedaily.org,2008://17.77</id>

    <published>2008-12-03T04:42:06Z</published>
    <updated>2009-03-07T20:18:53Z</updated>

    <summary> Now we are in the midst of crafting our long term economy while adjusting to the ravages of a self-destructive, short-term economy. All decisions...</summary>
    <author>
        <name>Richard Pauli</name>
        
    </author>
    
        <category term="future" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#category" />
    
    <category term="future" label="future" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#tag" />
    
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/">
        <![CDATA[ <font style="font-size: 1.25em;"><br />Now we are in the midst of crafting our long term economy while adjusting to the ravages of a self-destructive, short-term economy. <br /><br />
All decisions made and actions taken in this generation will have to apply to the generations ahead.&nbsp; If we want to survive as a species, today we must choose carefully and act deliberately. <br /><br />
The horrible penalty of pollution is that it compresses the time left to react.&nbsp;&nbsp; The rapidly increasing rate-of-change means our adaptation must be logical and decisive rather than genetic and leisurely. <br /></font><br /><span class="mt-enclosure mt-enclosure-image" style="display: inline;"><img alt="cityfogss.jpg" src="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/cityfogss.jpg" class="mt-image-right" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 20px 20px; float: right;" width="341" height="214" /></span><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">Any failure to make and implement key survival decisions means extinction.&nbsp; Any species acts to survive.&nbsp; The human beings that survive and thrive into a future will have to act much differently than we do today. <br /><br />
It is far easier to step into our future by choosing willful change now, rather than wait for the world to deliver the predicted assaults and react at that time to imposed change.<br /></font><br />
<br />
cross-posted to &nbsp; <a href="http://www.noenergytomorrow.org/" eudora="autourl">www.noenergytomorrow.org</a> <br />
<br />

<script type="text/javascript">
var gaJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ? "https://ssl." : "http://www.");
document.write(unescape("%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost + "google-analytics.com/ga.js' type='text/javascript'%3E%3C/script%3E"));
</script>
<script type="text/javascript">
try {
var pageTracker = _gat._getTracker("UA-7807024-1");
pageTracker._trackPageview();
} catch(err) {}</script>
]]>
        
    </content>
</entry>

<entry>
    <title>Argues with Idiots</title>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/2008/11/argues-with-idiots.html" />
    <id>tag:www.climatedebatedaily.org,2008://17.74</id>

    <published>2008-11-23T23:43:50Z</published>
    <updated>2009-03-07T20:20:45Z</updated>

    <summary><![CDATA[That would be my Indian name.&nbsp;&nbsp; Argues-with-Idiots.&nbsp; I am tilting at the windmill of human denial about the danger of global warming.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;...]]></summary>
    <author>
        <name>Richard Pauli</name>
        
    </author>
    
        <category term="debates" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#category" />
    
    <category term="argueidiots" label="Argue idiots" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#tag" />
    
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/">
        <![CDATA[<font style="font-size: 1.25em;">That would be my Indian name.&nbsp;&nbsp; Argues-with-Idiots.&nbsp; <br /><br />I am tilting at the windmill of human denial about the danger of global warming.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br /><br /></font>



<span class="mt-enclosure mt-enclosure-image" style="display: inline;"><img alt="anti-sciencew.jpg" src="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/anti-sciencew.jpg" class="mt-image-none" style="" width="480" height="212" /></span><br />&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; from ClimateProgress.org<br /><br /><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">And
AGW is worse than ever. Even TIME magazine thinks we should wake up to our dangerous misunderstanding of climate change.&nbsp; This article ran
just a few days before the election.<br /><br /></font><blockquote><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">"... carbon emissions would need to be cut drastically from current </font><br /><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">levels. Yet almost all of the subjects in Sterman's study failed to </font><br /><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">realize that, assuming instead that you could stabilize carbon </font><br /><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">concentration simply by capping carbon emissions at their current </font><br /><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">level. That's not the case -- and in fact, pursuing such a plan for </font><br /><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">the future would virtually guarantee that global warming could spin </font><br /><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">out of control. It may seem to many like good common sense to </font><br /><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">wait until we see proof of the serious damage global warming is </font><br /><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">doing before we take action. But it's not -- we can't "wait and see" </font><br /><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">on global warming because the climate has a momentum all its </font><br /><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">own, and if we wait for decades to finally act to reduce carbon </font><br /><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">emissions, it could well be too late. Yet this simply isn't </font><br /><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">understood. Someone as smart as Bill Gates doesn't seem to get it. </font><br /><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">"Fortunately climate change, although it's a huge challenge, it's a </font><br /><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">challenge that happens over a long period of time," he said at a </font><br /><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">forum in Beijing last year. "You know, we have time to work on it." </font><br /><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">But the truth is we don't. "</font><br /><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <font style="font-size: 0.8em;">http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1853871,00.html</font></font><br /></blockquote><font style="font-size: 1.25em;"><br />I am gradually growing to accept this human deficiency.&nbsp; Our species is
unable to see, unwilling to act on far off dangers - no matter how
certain.&nbsp;&nbsp; As the future of global warming becomes clearer,&nbsp; the ONLY
global survival solution requires a total unified human effort - with
100% support.. which is, of course, impossible.&nbsp; The differing opinions
and different thoughts and actions are all quintessentially human. This trait works best by having sizable factions in
disputed survival judgments and errant thinkers taking different
actions.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; So whole populations with one trait may thrive, while those
with another trait will fail.&nbsp; It seems like a nice way to design a
species: to allow groupings with individual differences to best adapt
to a changing future.&nbsp; This assures that random changes may still act
to allow the species to change.<br />&nbsp; <br /></font><span class="mt-enclosure mt-enclosure-image" style="display: inline;"><img alt="hotsuns.jpg" src="http://www.theboywhodeniedwolf.com/hotsuns.jpg" class="mt-image-right" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 20px 20px; float: right;" width="314" height="342" /></span><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">We
are not ants.&nbsp; But in this case it may bite us back, for the errant few
with denialist tunnel vision are working to constrain any unified
effort to change.&nbsp; And that spells doom.&nbsp; <br /><br />They may no longer
deny, they may only want to delay. That delay will kill us, the delay
means tipping points are passed and runaway global warming cannot be
stopped, no matter how strong the human will and effort.&nbsp;&nbsp; And a
destabilized climate will continue to wreak havoc, and the predicted
increase in&nbsp; temperature (11 degrees C ) can extinguish most animal life
at sea level.&nbsp;&nbsp; With less heat increase, perhaps we have better survival chances. <br /><br />First
comes the decimation of our species -&nbsp; it will take a few decades,
disease, drought, storm floods and the attendant wars and violent
struggles to survive - met with violent defense.&nbsp; Eventually the chaos
will wean out the weak and the unwilling and the remaining population
will have full commitment to survive - but almost no capability to
affect global cascading events.&nbsp; Then in a hot and changing age the
struggle will be to survive amidst dwindling resources and scarce living
places - perhaps limited to mountainous areas near the poles.&nbsp;&nbsp; Pretty
grim future.&nbsp; Even though that struggle may be a few generations out -
it may be good that people don't realize this just now.&nbsp; How does one
tell a young person about this? <br /><br />And so I am not going to argue
with idiots anymore because the ship is now hitting the iceberg and no
change of direction can prevent it.&nbsp; Now the discussion is about how to
best deploy the lifeboats and figure out how best to slow the sinking.
Bush was the captain that crashed the boat, Obama is the new captain.&nbsp;
So this is a change of attitude.&nbsp;&nbsp; The science and the projections
remain the same.&nbsp;&nbsp; I realize this is dystopic - but it is not
implausible, and it conforms to IPCC climate predictions.<br /><br />Argues-with-idiots-no-more.<br /></font><br /><br />Cross posted to www.theboywhodeniedwolf.org<br /><br /><div><br /></div><div><br /></div>

<script type="text/javascript">
var gaJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ? "https://ssl." : "http://www.");
document.write(unescape("%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost + "google-analytics.com/ga.js' type='text/javascript'%3E%3C/script%3E"));
</script>
<script type="text/javascript">
try {
var pageTracker = _gat._getTracker("UA-7807024-1");
pageTracker._trackPageview();
} catch(err) {}</script>
]]>
        
    </content>
</entry>

<entry>
    <title>Looming Heat Storm Has No End</title>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/2008/09/the-looming-heat-storm-with-no-end.html" />
    <id>tag:www.climatedebatedaily.org,2008://17.64</id>

    <published>2008-09-28T16:00:08Z</published>
    <updated>2009-03-07T20:21:52Z</updated>

    <summary><![CDATA[Humans have decided to accept the risk of certain warming in exchange for easy, cheap carbon fuels.&nbsp;&nbsp; Of course, mass marketing helps this along by...]]></summary>
    <author>
        <name>Richard Pauli</name>
        
    </author>
    
        <category term="doom" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#category" />
    
    <category term="heatstorm" label="heat storm" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#tag" />
    <category term="hurricane" label="hurricane" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#tag" />
    
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/">
        <![CDATA[<font style="font-size: 1.25em;"><br />Humans have decided to accept the risk of certain warming in exchange for easy, cheap carbon fuels.&nbsp;&nbsp; Of course, mass marketing helps this along by exhorting us to ignore the consequences and to give in to this short term indulgence.. <br /><br /></font><span class="mt-enclosure mt-enclosure-image" style="display: inline;"><img alt="DawnCityCrs.jpg" src="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/DawnCityCrs.jpg" class="mt-image-left" style="margin: 0pt 20px 20px 0pt; float: left;" width="197" height="280" /></span><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">This is similar to the profligate debt packaging of the last few decades. The payoff from the risk is too high for humans to resist.&nbsp; So we persist despite warnings.&nbsp; Now just one week of Congressional hubris and we are supposed to think all is well. The financial industry bailout is a model for how government will face the next big problem.&nbsp; And I am not convinced that government will do very well.<br /></font><br /><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">We are disempowered, we keep an eye on the horizon and see the warming coming.&nbsp; We can speak truth and demand an end to denial, but we are a long way from significant action.&nbsp; The most fundamental thing we can control is our spiritual center.&nbsp; We can prepare ourselves for the privation ahead by knowing about it.&nbsp; Think of it as a slow moving hurricane like Katrina. Everyone was stunned by the unexpected death and destruction and the suffering that still remains.&nbsp; For the next hurricanes FEMA tried harder, and people sensed the importance of seeking safety preparing and plans to survive.&nbsp; The next hurricane will teach us more lessons. &nbsp;<br /><br />Global Climate Destabilization is kind of like a looming heat storm with no end.&nbsp; We have never seen this, we don't know what to expect, we are not completely sure about all the catastrophes associated with this.&nbsp;&nbsp; But clearly our own actions have made it worse, and our actions can make it less destructive.&nbsp; All of human history has never seen such a storm&nbsp; Science gives us much of a general view but we don't know exactly when, and we don't know exactly how bad.&nbsp; But the heat is on the horizon.<br />&nbsp; <br /></font><span class="mt-enclosure mt-enclosure-image" style="display: inline;"><img alt="darkdawncropss.jpg" src="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/darkdawncropss.jpg" class="mt-image-right" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 20px 20px; float: right;" width="283" height="194" /></span><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">Humans will eventually know all this by feeling it directly.&nbsp; It is really hard for me to accept that our species is unable to act to the clear danger.&nbsp; It tests my acceptance, makes me angry that humans have not really decided to live into a multigenerational future.&nbsp;&nbsp; That is really sad.&nbsp; I expect people will feel these kinds of emotions more and more.&nbsp;</font> 

<script type="text/javascript">
var gaJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ? "https://ssl." : "http://www.");
document.write(unescape("%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost + "google-analytics.com/ga.js' type='text/javascript'%3E%3C/script%3E"));
</script>
<script type="text/javascript">
try {
var pageTracker = _gat._getTracker("UA-7807024-1");
pageTracker._trackPageview();
} catch(err) {}</script>
]]>
        
    </content>
</entry>

<entry>
    <title>Understanding Ourselves - thanks Wikipedia</title>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/2008/09/thanks-wikipedia.html" />
    <id>tag:www.climatedebatedaily.org,2008://17.63</id>

    <published>2008-09-26T07:14:20Z</published>
    <updated>2009-03-07T20:22:59Z</updated>

    <summary>Wikipedia can save the world through helping us understand ourselves better Some human traits work to block progress in facing problems of Anthropogenic Climate Destabilization...</summary>
    <author>
        <name>Richard Pauli</name>
        
    </author>
    
        <category term="Psychology" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#category" />
    
    <category term="understandingsocialpsychologist" label="Understanding Social Psychologist" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#tag" />
    
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/">
        <![CDATA[<p><b>Wikipedia</b> can save the world through helping us understand ourselves
better<br>
<br>
<font size="3">Some human traits work to block progress in facing problems of
Anthropogenic Climate Destabilization<br>
<br>
Unique to our species, our human psychology, built from years of survival tests,
leaves us with traits unsuited for modern times.&nbsp; These can explain human
inactivity in the face of this impending catastrophe.<br>
<br>
Consider a quick sampling of Wikipedia&#8217;s social psychology entries :<br>
</font></p>

<p style="border-width: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: verdana,sans-serif; margin-top: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; line-height: 1.7em;">
  <br>
</p>

<p style="border-width: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: verdana,sans-serif; margin-top: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; line-height: 1.7em;">
  ===&nbsp; <font size="2"><b>see &nbsp;
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Social_psychology&nbsp;
  </b></font>===
</p>

<p><br></p>

<p style="border-width: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: verdana,sans-serif; margin-top: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; line-height: 1.7em;">
  <span style="font-family: verdana; line-height: 17px;"><span style="font-family: -webkit-sans-serif; line-height: 19px;">
  <p style="margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; line-height: 1.5em;">

<b>Denial</b> See:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial -  postulated by Freud; a condition &#8220;in which a person is faced with a fact that is too uncomfortable to accept and rejects it instead, insisting that it is not true despite what may be overwhelming evidence.&#8221;

<p>
  =====================
<p style="border-width: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: verdana,sans-serif; margin-top: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; line-height: 1.7em;">
  <span style="font-family: verdana; line-height: 17px;"><span style="font-family: -webkit-sans-serif; line-height: 19px;">
  <p style="margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; line-height: 1.5em;">
    <b>Bystander Effect</b>.. A common explanation of this phenomenon is that,
    with others present, observers all assume that someone else is going to
    intervene and so they each individually refrain from doing so and feel less
    responsible. This is an example of
    how&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility" style="text-decoration: none; background-image: none; color: rgb(90, 54, 150);" title="Diffusion of responsibility">diffusion
    of responsibility</a>&nbsp;leads
    to&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_loafing" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Social loafing">social
    loafing</a>. People may also assume that other bystanders may be more
    qualified to help, such as being
    a&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physician" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Physician">doctor</a>&nbsp;or&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_officer" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Police officer">police
    officer</a>, and their intervention would thus be unneeded. People may also
    fear losing face in front of the other bystanders, being superseded by a
    superior helper, offering unwanted assistance, or the legal consequences of
    offering inferior and possibly dangerous assistance. Another explanation is
    that bystanders monitor the reactions of other people in an emergency
    situation to see if others think that it is necessary to intervene. Since
    others are doing exactly the same, everyone concludes from the inaction of
    others that other people do not think that help is needed.&nbsp;&nbsp;<br>

  </p>
  <p style="border-width: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: verdana,sans-serif; margin-top: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; line-height: 1.7em;">
    =====================<span style="font-family: verdana; line-height: 17px;"><span style="font-family: -webkit-sans-serif; line-height: 19px;">
    </span></span>
  </p>
  </span></span>
</p>

<p style="border-width: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: verdana,sans-serif; margin-top: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; line-height: 1.7em;">
  <span style="font-family: -webkit-sans-serif; line-height: 19px;"><b>Groupthink</b><font size="2">&nbsp;is
  a type of thought exhibited by group members who try to minimize conflict and
  reach consensus
  without&nbsp;</font><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Critical thinking">critically
  testing, analyzing, and evaluating</a><font size="2">&nbsp;ideas. During
  groupthink, members of the group avoid promoting viewpoints outside the
  comfort zone
  of&nbsp;</font><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Consensus">consensus</a><font size="2">&nbsp;thinking.
  A variety of motives for this may exist such as a desire to avoid being seen
  as foolish, or a desire to avoid embarrassing or angering other members of the
  group. Groupthink may cause groups to make hasty, irrational decisions, where
  individual doubts are set aside, for fear of upsetting the group&#8217;s balance.
  The term is frequently used pejoratively, with hindsight.</font></span>

</p>

<p><br>
The term was coined in 1952
by&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_H._Whyte" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="William H. Whyte">William
H. Whyte</a>&nbsp;in&nbsp;<i>Fortune</i>:&nbsp; &#8230;We are not talking about mere
instinctive conformity &#8230;what we are talking about is a rationalized conformity
&#8212; an open, articulate philosophy which holds that group values are not only
expedient but right and good as
well.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-0" style="line-height: 1em;"><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink#cite_note-0" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title=""></a></sup></p>

<div>
  <span style="font-family: verdana; line-height: 17px;"></span>=======================
</div>

<p style="border-width: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: verdana,sans-serif; margin-top: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; line-height: 1.7em;">
  <span style="font-family: -webkit-sans-serif; line-height: 19px;"><font size="2">The&nbsp;</font><b>bandwagon
  effect &#8230;</b><font size="2">is the observation that people often do and believe
  things because many other people do and believe the same things. The effect is
  often&nbsp;</font><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pejorative" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Pejorative">pejoratively</a><font size="2">&nbsp;called&nbsp;</font><a class="mw-redirect" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herding_instinct" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Herding instinct">herding
  instinct</a><font size="2">, particularly when applied to adolescents. People
  tend to follow the crowd without examining the merits of a particular thing.
  The bandwagon effect is the reason for
  the&nbsp;</font><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Argumentum ad populum">bandwagon
  fallacy</a><font size="2">&#8217;s success.</font></span>

</p>

<p style="border-width: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: verdana,sans-serif; margin-top: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; line-height: 1.7em;">
  <span style="font-family: -webkit-sans-serif; line-height: 19px;"><font size="2">===========================</font></span><br>
</p>

<p>
  <b>Diffusion of responsibility</b> is a
  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social" title="Social">social</a> phenomenon
  which tends to occur in groups of people above a certain critical size when
  responsibility is not explicitly assigned.
</p>

<p>
  Diffusion of responsibility can manifest itself:

</p>

<ul>
  <li>
    in a group of peers who, through action or inaction, allow events to occur
    which they would never allow if alone (action is typically referred to as
    <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink" title="Groupthink">groupthink</a>;
    inaction is typically referred to as the
    <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect" title="Bystander effect">bystander
    effect</a>) or
  </li>
  <li>
    in hierarchical
    <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization" title="Organization">organizations</a>

    as when, for example, underlings claim that they were following orders and
    supervisors claim that they were just issuing directives and not doing
    anything per se.
  </li>
</ul>

<p>
  This mindset can be seen in the phrase &#8220;No one raindrop thinks it caused the
  flood&#8221;.
</p>

<p style="border-width: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: verdana,sans-serif; margin-top: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; line-height: 1.7em;">
  <span style="font-family: -webkit-sans-serif; line-height: 19px;"><font size="2">===========================</font></span>
</p>

<p style="margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; line-height: 1.5em;">
  An&nbsp;<b>argumentum ad
  populum</b>&nbsp;(<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Latin">Latin</a>:
  &#8220;appeal to the people&#8221;),
  in&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Logic">logic</a>,
  is
  a&nbsp;<a class="mw-redirect" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_fallacy" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Logical fallacy">fallacious
  argument</a>&nbsp;that concludes
  a&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposition" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Proposition">proposition</a>&nbsp;to
  be true because many or all people believe it; it alleges that &#8220;<i>If many
  believe so, it is so.</i>&#8221;
  In&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Ethics">ethics</a>&nbsp;this&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Argument">argument</a>&nbsp;is
  stated, &#8220;<i>If many find it acceptable, it is acceptable.</i>&#8221;

</p>

<p style="margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; line-height: 1.5em;">
  This type of argument is known by several
  names<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-0" style="line-height: 1em;"><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum#cite_note-0" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="">[1]</a></sup>,
  including&nbsp;<b>appeal to the masses</b>,&nbsp;<b>appeal to
  belief</b>,&nbsp;<b>appeal to the majority</b>,&nbsp;<b>appeal to the
  people</b>,<b>argument by consensus</b>,&nbsp;<b>authority of the many</b>,
  and&nbsp;<b>bandwagon fallacy</b>, and
  in&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Latin">Latin</a>&nbsp;by
  the names&nbsp;<i>argumentum ad populum</i>&nbsp;(&#8220;appeal to the
  people&#8221;),<i><b>argumentum ad numerum</b></i>&nbsp;(&#8220;appeal to the number&#8221;),
  and&nbsp;<i><b>consensus gentium</b></i>&nbsp;(&#8220;agreement of the clans&#8221;). It
  is also the basis of a number of social phenomena,
  including&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communal_reinforcement" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Communal reinforcement">communal
  reinforcement</a>&nbsp;and
  the&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandwagon_effect" style="text-decoration: none; background-image: none; color: rgb(90, 54, 150);" title="Bandwagon effect">bandwagon
  effect</a>, the spreading of various religious beliefs, and of
  the&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_language" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Chinese language">Chinese</a>&nbsp;proverb
  &#8220;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_men_make_a_tiger" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Three men make a tiger">three
  men make a tiger</a>&#8221;.

</p>

<p style="margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; line-height: 1.5em;">
  ===================
</p>

<p style="margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; line-height: 1.5em;">
  <i><b>wisdom of repugnance</b></i>, or the &#8216;<i><b>yuck&#8217;
  factor<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisdom_of_repugnance#cite_note-Cohen_2008-0" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title=""><span style="line-height: 11px;"><font size="2">&nbsp;</font></span></a></b></i>&nbsp;describes
  the belief that
  an&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intuition_%28knowledge%29" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Intuition (knowledge)">intuitive</a>&nbsp;(or
  &#8220;deep-seated&#8221;) negative response to some thing, idea or practice should be
  interpreted
  as&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence" style="color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Evidence"><u>evidence</u></a>&nbsp;for
  the&nbsp;<a class="mw-redirect" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrinsic" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Intrinsic">intrinsically</a>&nbsp;harmful
  or&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Evil">evil</a>&nbsp;character
  of that thing. Furthermore, it refers to the notion
  that&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisdom" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Wisdom">wisdom</a>&nbsp;may
  manifest itself in feelings
  of&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disgust" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Disgust">disgust</a>&nbsp;towards
  anything which lacks
  &#8220;<a class="mw-redirect" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodness_and_value_theory" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Goodness and value theory">goodness</a>&#8221;
  or wisdom, though the feelings or the reasoning of such &#8216;wisdom&#8217; may not be
  immediately explicable
  through&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reason" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Reason">reason</a>.

</p>

<p>====================</p>

<p style="margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; line-height: 1.5em;">
  <b>Somebody Else&#8217;s Problem</b>&nbsp;..is an effect that causes people to
  ignore matters which are generally important to a group but may not seem
  specifically important to the individual.<br>
</p>

<p style="margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; line-height: 1.5em;">
  <span style="line-height: 10px;"><font size="2">=====================</font></span>
</p>

<p style="margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; line-height: 1.5em;">
  <b>Optimism bias&#8230;</b>&nbsp; tendency for people to be over-optimistic about
  the outcome of planned actions&#8230;over-estimating the likelihood of positive
  events and under-estimating the likelihood of negative events.

</p>

<p style="margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; line-height: 1.5em;">
  ====================
</p>

<p style="margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; line-height: 1.5em;">
  The&nbsp;<b>Banality of Evil</b>&nbsp;&#8230;&nbsp;describes the thesis that the
  great&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Evil">evils</a>&nbsp;in&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="History">history&nbsp;</a>generally,
  and&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="The Holocaust">the
  Holocaust</a>&nbsp;in particular, were not executed by fanatics
  or&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Antisocial personality disorder">sociopaths</a>&nbsp;but
  rather by ordinary people who accepted the premises of their state and
  therefore participated with the view that their actions were normal.

</p>

<p>===================<br>
<span style="font-family: verdana; line-height: 17px;"><font size="1"><br>
</font></span></p>

<div>
  <span style="font-family: verdana; line-height: 17px;"><span style="font-family: -webkit-sans-serif; line-height: 19px;">
  <div id="bodyContent">
    <p style="margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; line-height: 1.5em;">
      <b>pluralistic ignorance</b>&nbsp;is a process which involves several
      members of a group who think that they have different perceptions,
      beliefs, or attitudes from the rest of the group. While they do not
      endorse the group norm, the dissenting persons behave like the other group
      members, because they think that the behaviour of the other group members
      shows that the opinion of the group is unanimous. In other words, because
      everyone who disagrees behaves as if he or she agrees, all dissenting
      members think that the norm is endorsed by every group member but
      themselves. This in turn reinforces their willingness to conform to the
      group norm rather than express their disagreement. Because of pluralistic
      ignorance, people may conform to the perceived consensual opinion of a
      group, instead of thinking and acting on their own perceptions.
    </p>
    <p style="margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; line-height: 1.5em;">

      <a id="Consequences_of_Pluralistic_Ignorance" name="Consequences_of_Pluralistic_Ignorance" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;"></a>
    </p>
    <h2 style="border-bottom: 1px solid rgb(170, 170, 170); margin: 0px 0px 0.6em; color: black; background-image: none; font-weight: normal; padding-top: 0.5em; padding-bottom: 0.17em; font-size: 150%;">
      <span class="editsection" style="float: right; margin-left: 5px; font-size: 67%;">[<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pluralistic_ignorance&amp;action=edit&amp;section=1" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Edit section: Consequences of Pluralistic Ignorance">edit</a>]</span><span class="mw-headline">Consequences
      of Pluralistic Ignorance</span>
    </h2>
    <p style="margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; line-height: 1.5em;">
      In a series of studies conducted to test the effect of pluralistic
      ignorance, Prentice and
      Miller<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-2" style="line-height: 1em;"><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluralistic_ignorance#cite_note-2" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="">[3]</a></sup>&nbsp;studied
      the consequences of pluralistic ignorance
      at&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princeton_University" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Princeton University">Princeton
      University</a>. They found that, on average, private levels of comfort
      with drinking practices on campus were much lower than the perceived
      average. In the case of men, they found a shifting of private attitudes
      toward this perceived norm, a form
      of&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Cognitive dissonance">cognitive
      dissonance</a>. Women, on the other hand, were found to have an increased
      sense of alienation on the campus but lacked the attitude change detected
      in men, presumably because norms related to alcohol consumption on campus
      are much more central for men than for women.
    </p>

    <p style="margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; line-height: 1.5em;">
      Pluralistic ignorance may partially explain
      the&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect" style="text-decoration: none; background-image: none; color: rgb(90, 54, 150);" title="Bystander effect">bystander
      effect</a>: the observation that people are more likely to intervene in an
      emergency situation when alone than when other persons are present. If
      people monitor the reactions of others in such a situation, they may
      conclude from the inaction of others that other people think that it is
      not necessary to intervene. Thus no one may take any action, even though
      some people privately think that they should do something. On the other
      hand, if one person intervenes, others are more likely to follow and give
      assistance. For example, in the murder case
      of&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese" style="text-decoration: none; background-image: none; color: rgb(90, 54, 150);" title="Kitty Genovese">Kitty
      Genovese</a>: About a dozen witnesses failed to help Genovese when she was
      stabbed to death in 1964. Most of the witnesses only heard the murder
      (i.e. they were
      not&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witness" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 43, 184); background-image: none;" title="Witness">eye
      witnesses</a>) and were both unsure of what was happening and unable to
      monitor the reactions of other people. Nevertheless, pluralistic ignorance
      may explain their inaction if at the time they were reasoning: &#8220;Others
      must also hear what is happening - if no one else is doing anything about
      it, then it must not be an emergency.&#8221;
    </p>
  </div>
  </span></span>
</div>

<p style="border-width: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: verdana,sans-serif; margin-top: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; line-height: 1.7em;">

  =====================
</p>

<p style="border-width: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: verdana,sans-serif; margin-top: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; line-height: 1.7em;">
  <br>
</p>

<script type="text/javascript">
var gaJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ? "https://ssl." : "http://www.");
document.write(unescape("%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost + "google-analytics.com/ga.js' type='text/javascript'%3E%3C/script%3E"));
</script>

<script type="text/javascript">
try {
var pageTracker = _gat._getTracker("UA-7807024-1");
pageTracker._trackPageview();
} catch(err) {}</script>
]]>
        

    </content>
</entry>

<entry>
    <title>How bad? and When?   Answer: Worse and Sooner</title>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/2008/09/how-bad-and-when-answer-worse-and-sooner.html" />
    <id>tag:www.climatedebatedaily.org,2008://17.62</id>

    <published>2008-09-25T08:16:31Z</published>
    <updated>2009-03-07T20:23:35Z</updated>

    <summary><![CDATA[I try to avoid expressing my hypervigilance much&nbsp; - but this may be appropriate.&nbsp; Global warming is totally ignored.&nbsp; Global denial is getting delusional.&nbsp; This...]]></summary>
    <author>
        <name>Richard Pauli</name>
        
    </author>
    
        <category term="doom" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#category" />
    
    <category term="doom" label="doom" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#tag" />
    
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/">
        <![CDATA[<font size="3">I try to avoid expressing my hypervigilance much&nbsp; - but this may be appropriate.&nbsp; Global warming is totally ignored.&nbsp; Global denial is getting delusional.&nbsp; <br /><br />
This is the latest discussion from the global warming front...<br />
<a href="http://climaticidechronicles.org/2008/09/24/what-will-it-take-to-get-us-into-the-streets/" eudora="autourl">http://climaticidechronicles.org/2008/09/24/what-will-it-take-to-get-us-into-the-streets/<br /><br />
</a>This is picking up on some very disturbing news - not yet peer reviewed - but very big change is becoming more inevitable.&nbsp;&nbsp; Other sites discussed this, but this guy seems to have the best writing. <br /><br />
For me, I think the answers may be more Zen- like, Zen something.&nbsp; Techno-existentialist quandary here. <br /><br />
Choose:&nbsp; Insanely radical change to save the very future of the species?&nbsp; Or let go and live out the lovely end days.&nbsp;&nbsp; Or how much in between?<br /><br />
I still want to keep trying to discover "how bad?"&nbsp; and&nbsp; "when?"&nbsp;&nbsp; <br /><br />
This disquieting news of Methane melting suggests&nbsp; Worse and Sooner.&nbsp;&nbsp; <br /><br />
I am left facing my own life now and trying to enjoy it.&nbsp;&nbsp; So far, I predict things will get slightly messy and chaotic fairly soon (years), but the real horrors may come about in mid century.&nbsp; But paleoclimatological studies posit very rapid and radical climate changes in the past - changes in 2 to 10 years.&nbsp;&nbsp; I call it possible but implausible. For now.<br /><br />
<br /><br />
</font> 

<script type="text/javascript">
var gaJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ? "https://ssl." : "http://www.");
document.write(unescape("%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost + "google-analytics.com/ga.js' type='text/javascript'%3E%3C/script%3E"));
</script>
<script type="text/javascript">
try {
var pageTracker = _gat._getTracker("UA-7807024-1");
pageTracker._trackPageview();
} catch(err) {}</script>
]]>
        
    </content>
</entry>

<entry>
    <title>Cutting the Gordian Knot</title>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/2008/09/cutting-the-gordian-knot.html" />
    <id>tag:www.climatedebatedaily.org,2008://17.60</id>

    <published>2008-09-24T07:29:46Z</published>
    <updated>2009-03-07T20:24:41Z</updated>

    <summary>Cutting the Gordian Knot A Gordian knot is a mythical, impossible to untie dilemma - solved by a swift destructive slash. The decades of denial...</summary>
    <author>
        <name>Richard Pauli</name>
        
    </author>
    
        <category term="solutions" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#category" />
    
    <category term="doom" label="doom" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#tag" />
    
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/">
        <![CDATA[<br /><font size="4"><b>Cutting the Gordian Knot</b></font><br />
<i><br /><font size="3">A Gordian knot is a mythical, impossible to untie dilemma - solved by a swift destructive slash.</font></i><br /><br />
<font style="font-size: 1.25em;">The decades of denial and delay have eliminated the options for gradual
change and now present only limited, radical choices for long-term,
multigenerational survival.&nbsp; We overlooked, squandered or were
persuaded to miss the opportunities to address the problem with more
moderate sacrifice.&nbsp; Now the enormity and complexity of the problem is
so great that only a Gordian Knot solution will work&nbsp; </font><font style="font-size: 1.25em;"><br /><br /></font>

<div><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">The very first decision: Do we want to Live or Die ? &nbsp; &nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font style="font-size: 1.25em;"><br /></font></div>
<div><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">&nbsp;If die then keep up business-as-usual (BAU)<br /></font></div>

<div><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">&nbsp;&nbsp; (if the choice is postponed or delayed then the answer biases toward more certain death)</font></div>
<div><font style="font-size: 1.25em;"><br /></font></div>
<div><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">Next decision: &nbsp;If yes to live, then how long? &nbsp; Just this
generation?&nbsp; or how many generations? &nbsp; All humans? or how selected?&nbsp; <br /></font>
</div>
<div><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">Then decide how much adaptation and mitigation we must apply in order to meet those goals. <br /><br />
Truncating to just near-term survival requires very little co-operation.&nbsp; Any mitigating actions will extend the decline.<br /><br />
The greater the survival scheme the more aggressive the response required.<br /><br />
If the decision is for multgenerational life, then this must be decided
by&nbsp;consensus.&nbsp; Anything other than&nbsp;consensus&nbsp;is tantamount to
acquiescence.</font>


</div>
<div><font style="font-size: 1.25em;"><br /></font></div>

<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">With the global
agreement to transgenerational survival, then comes the committment to
ruthless enforcement of atmospheric care.&nbsp; <br /><br /></font>

</div>

<div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">Any delay in implementation means greater challenges<br /></font>
</div></div>
<div><font style="font-size: 1.25em;"><br /></font></div>
<div><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">(Sub
decision by any civilization: decide how many of the existing human
population will be saved - i.e. 10 million displaced and starving -
will they be ignored? &nbsp;Since this is a discussion of civilization - and
certainly allowing large populations to die is not civilized - hence
such an uncivilized act would be better characterized as
anarchist/neo-con.&nbsp; Not to excuse the act, merely to say that it is not
the mark of a civil government)</font></div>
<div><font style="font-size: 1.25em;"><br />
So we need a civil society with strong governments, sufficient to
protect its populous and bring about a radical restructure of industry,
commerce, agriculture and transportation. <br /><br /></font>

<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font style="font-size: 1.25em;"><b>Failure to change, means demise is delayed, not belayed. </b><br /><br /></font>

</div>
</div><font style="font-size: 1.25em;">
Here is the only solution I can see - painful, untested, but
scientifically plausible.&nbsp;&nbsp; It would require a full testing of all the
best traits, discipline, organization, fealty, and enthusiasm that
humans have ever displayed.<br /><br />

Which is why I think we are doomed.<br /><br />The only hope&nbsp; - see:&nbsp; http://www.credoandscreed.com/2008/09/why-we-are-doomed-pt-2---the-only-hope-is.html</font>

<br />

<script type="text/javascript">
var gaJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ? "https://ssl." : "http://www.");
document.write(unescape("%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost + "google-analytics.com/ga.js' type='text/javascript'%3E%3C/script%3E"));
</script>
<script type="text/javascript">
try {
var pageTracker = _gat._getTracker("UA-7807024-1");
pageTracker._trackPageview();
} catch(err) {}</script>
]]>
        
    </content>
</entry>

<entry>
    <title>Delay Phrases: Script for a Climate Denier</title>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/2008/09/delay-phrases-script-for-a-climate-denier.html" />
    <id>tag:www.climatedebatedaily.org,2008://17.58</id>

    <published>2008-09-24T02:02:34Z</published>
    <updated>2009-03-07T20:25:25Z</updated>

    <summary><![CDATA[The Professional Denier's scriptPurpose:&nbsp; to delay any organized reaction that could limit carbon fuel consumptionFor optimal delay - try to prolong time between each statement,...]]></summary>
    <author>
        <name>Richard Pauli</name>
        
    </author>
    
        <category term="PR" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#category" />
    
    <category term="denialdenier" label="denial denier" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#tag" />
    
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/">
        <![CDATA[<br /><b>The Professional Denier's script</b><br />Purpose:&nbsp; to delay any organized reaction that could limit carbon fuel consumption<br /><br />For optimal delay - try to prolong time between each statement, begin:<br /><br /><b>"There is no such thing as global warming"</b><br />&nbsp;<br />
"OK there is some warming<br />
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>But the science is still not sure about it<br />
"OK most ALL Scientists agree that there is warming<br />
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>But some scientists do not agree.<br />
"OK I see that you don't really need to be a scientist to see the warming<br />
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>But it is not warming everywhere<br />
"OK I see the data says the average temperature is warming<br />
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>But your data collection is flawed<br />
"OK I see that data has been collected for years just about everywhere<br />
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>But not the oceans, the oceans are still just fine<br />
"OK I see the oceans are warming most everywhere<br />
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>But Antarctic ice is increasing<br />
"OK I see the Artic ice is melting, and Greenland ice cap too.<br />
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>But that is natural cyclical change<br />
"OK I see that there is no cycle changes except our recent industrial age <br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; But global warming is not really caused by humans<br />
"OK I see the warming may be greatly enhanced by humans<br />
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>But we cannot possibly do anything about it.<br />
"OK maybe we should try to do something about it.<br />
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>But it won't be a problem for another century<br />
"OK maybe it is smarter to face the problem sooner rather than later,<br />
&nbsp;<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>But we should not be overly concerned or act with too much haste<br />
"OK we should be really concerned and start to act right now<br />
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>But we should not be too anxious or worried<br />
"OK we should be worried<br />
&nbsp;<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>But we should certainly not be alarmist<br />
"OK maybe we should sound the alarm,<br />
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>but we should not panic.<br />
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab><br /><br />
( "OK that should delay things for a few decades, can we have our paycheck now?)<br />
&nbsp;<br />
Richard Pauli 9-08

<script type="text/javascript">
var gaJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ? "https://ssl." : "http://www.");
document.write(unescape("%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost + "google-analytics.com/ga.js' type='text/javascript'%3E%3C/script%3E"));
</script>
<script type="text/javascript">
try {
var pageTracker = _gat._getTracker("UA-7807024-1");
pageTracker._trackPageview();
} catch(err) {}</script>
]]>
        
    </content>
</entry>

<entry>
    <title>The &apos;Shutup and Be Happy&apos; Debate</title>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/2008/09/the-shutup-and-be-happy-debate.html" />
    <id>tag:www.climatedebatedaily.org,2008://17.54</id>

    <published>2008-09-14T17:23:37Z</published>
    <updated>2009-03-07T20:26:01Z</updated>

    <summary><![CDATA[ I think we have about 4 generations left I am not shouting this.&nbsp; But I think it may be so.&nbsp; And I know most...]]></summary>
    <author>
        <name>Richard Pauli</name>
        
    </author>
    
        <category term="debates" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#category" />
    
    <category term="debate" label="debate" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#tag" />
    <category term="ecoexistentialism" label="eco-existentialism" scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#tag" />
    
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.climatedebatedaily.org/">
        <![CDATA[<p><br>
I think we have about 4 generations left<br>
<br>
I am not shouting this.&nbsp; But I think it may be so.&nbsp; And I know most
will ignore my Jerimiahed screed.<br>
<br>
Humans have about 4 generations left on this planet.&nbsp; Not much more.&nbsp;</p>

<p>That puts it into the next century.  There are plenty of serious
climate model scenarios described out to the year 2100.&nbsp; Some are not so bad, some are
horrible.&nbsp; Even the more optimistic views are predicated on very radical changes to our civilization to fight this.&nbsp; Something we are not doing in
the slightest.&nbsp; Not even started. No real plans.  As David Letterman said recently about global warming,
&#8220;<a href=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qALsFBSCrAw id=ve3l title="Not optimistic, no leadership">We
are so screwed</a>&#8221; &nbsp;&nbsp;<br>
<br>
So We Humans are pretty much doomed, but not Us Humans now.  Right now everything is
pretty nice.&nbsp;
<a href=http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=53fa5a2b-393d-49a7-879b-8284b3a7f5ee id=bs-v title="Don't get too comfortable">Beautiful
summer, plenty to eat, and for the most part, skies are clear and cool</a>.&nbsp; .  But climate destabilization is so
great, and carries such momentum, that we have long passed our opportunity to
effect change.&nbsp; Now, today all we can say is Adapt, Mitigate and Accept.<br></p>

<p><br>
I really don&#8217;t want to stand on the corner in a hair shirt and sandals preaching
doom.&nbsp; Nobody wants to hear it.&nbsp; No one wants to spoil the party. And
it is not fun for me.&nbsp; Some want to stay oblivious for fun, some for
profit, and some because they really cannot face it.&nbsp; Many, many know it,
but carry on with civil grace, social acceptability, and economic momentum.<br>
<br>
The internal debate I hold is about how I let that affect my life today.&nbsp;
Since I am 59 years old, I may not be facing much of the big problems that the future generations will be facing.  We might figure that our grandchildren will be living in a world
that we cannot even imagine&nbsp; - if they are lucky.&nbsp; What do I owe them
in preparing and warning and accepting?&nbsp;&nbsp; If I cannot really change much, shouldn&#8217;t
I just shutup and be happy?<br></p>

<p><br>
I suspect this is a very big debate.&nbsp; Philosophical, existentialist, grief
and everything you want to think about applies here.&nbsp; A much better debate, I think than anything else.<br>
<br>
<br></p>

<script type="text/javascript">
var gaJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ? "https://ssl." : "http://www.");
document.write(unescape("%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost + "google-analytics.com/ga.js' type='text/javascript'%3E%3C/script%3E"));
</script>

<script type="text/javascript">
try {
var pageTracker = _gat._getTracker("UA-7807024-1");
pageTracker._trackPageview();
} catch(err) {}</script>
]]>
        

    </content>
</entry>

</feed>
